Thursday, October 02, 2008

Analysis: Who completed their mission more effectively in the vice-presidential debate?

56 comments:

Mr. Bretzmann said...

Gwen Ifill broke her ankle the other day, but I don't think she'll need it tonight.

Mr. Bretzmann said...

"Nice to meet you. Hey, can I call you Joe?"

"You can call me Joe."

Actual quotes.

joannaz said...

Oh Dr. Bretzmann.
Did you know that I was actually going to type that?
You shall beat me to the punch year after year.
Does the reaction ticker at the bottom of the screen distract and annoy anyone else?

Mr. Bretzmann said...

That ticker is great. It tells me what to think. Should I like what they are saying...the green line says yes...

joannaz said...

"I may not answer the question like you want moderator"...

Mr. Bretzmann said...

Government you're not always the answer, you're part of the problem.
--Sarah Palin

"Government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem."
--Ronald Reagan

Mr. Bretzmann said...

Joe Biden and Sarah Palin agree on gay marriage?

Mr. Bretzmann said...

"nuclear"

pronounced: nuke lee err

from the root word nucleus

belmarez said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
belmarez said...

Palin is winning the debate tonight just because she hasn't been comical like she has been in previous interviews.

Mr. Bretzmann said...

Sarah Palin is winning because she isn't comical? That makes no sense. This isn't Saturday Night Live, this is the second highest postion in the United States government.

belmarez said...

Palin said that Al-Qaeda is a Shia movement when in fact it is a sunni movement. It's kind of hard to fight the enemy when you don't even know who you are fighting.

belmarez said...

She is winning by comparison. People expect her to say the dumbest things or just stumble, and since she is not doing that, it looks like she is winning. If you only looked at this debate in isolation, Biden is winning it.

joannaz said...

Is anyone else noticing Sen. Biden's loud sighs?
Also, Biden's little pun "That's what I call a bridge to no where"
....
Does every get extra credit tonight?

Mr. Bretzmann said...

"There you go again", said by Ronald Reagan about Jimmy Carter during their 1980 presidential debate

"There you go again" said by Sarah Palin about Joe Biden in their 2008 vice-presidential debate.

Mr. Bretzmann said...

I think Joanna would agree that Ronald Reagan should get extra credit for saving us from the Soviets and allowing all of us to be here tonight to watch the debate.

joannaz said...

I'm sorry but Biden's "McCain is not a maverick on important issues" rant was so much fun to watch. There was fire in his eyes.

kylem27 said...

Palin got owned. She basically kept repeating the same thing over and over and you could tell that she was getting frustrated. Biden was cool as a cucumber.

Remind me again how having a bank account with over a million dollars makes you middle class as Palin does?

kylem27 said...

Also, Palin kept trying to relate to the uneducated women that are not interested in politics with the whole hockey mom thing again.

Mr. Bretzmann said...

This is the commentary we have to listen to?

Speaking about Biden, a CNN commentator said that the line went down "When he started talking the Senate speak. When he started talking about amendments or whatever..."

Yes, that arcane Senate speak...he used words like amendments...and bills...and votes. We should all be confused by him using such strange words. We could never understand what those mean.

What a stupid comment from CNN.

belmarez said...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/debate_fact_check

joannaz said...

Did anyone else wonder why on earth Palin would want to bring up that it would be nice to give the vice presidency more power... and bring up Dick Cheney to help her point. Since when is Dick Cheney someone you want to be associating yourself with?
Both of them took every opportunity to mention the working class towns they were from. It came across as genuine and revelant only a couple times--the rest seemed forced and awkward.

Overall, the debate was all about Palin tonight. Everyone was looking for her to fail, and fail miserably at that. She didn't fail as horribly as everyone expected though, in fact, she did okay. And tonight, okay for Palin equals great.
Biden was intelligent, passionate, and did his job. But, everyone expected him to.
As always, in politics, it's always about expectations and whether you did better, worse, or how expected. Palin exceeded expectations; Biden did as expected. McCain will be helped most by this debate.

Marty said...

Palin didn't answer the questions, she contradicted
herself, and she slipped countless "heckuvas" and "doggone its" into her rhetoric.

And Joe Biden and Sarah Palin DO NOT agree on gay marriage. That was a semantic coincidence. Obama/Biden don't want to alter the meaning of gay marriage for secular reasons, but McCain/Palin oppose gay marriage for non-secular reasons.

"Uneducated women", Kyle Meyer?

Really?

I'm almost as offended by that as much as I would be if Sarah Palin would be the first women in the White House...

"John McCain knows how to win a war..."

Really? Did we win the Vietnam War, Sarah Palin? If you're going to make the claim that John McCain is going to be a strong leader in times of foreign conflict, for pete's sake don't use THAT as an example.

Also, stop your winking. You're making me nervous.

Also, Joe Biden spends a lot of time at Home Depot.

Jokes and editorials aside, I was just waiting for someone to point out her contradictions and beg her to answer the questions directly.

Take her rebuttal to clean energy:
The green, clean natural gas line would be one of the most expensive government infrastructure projects in the United States. Yet the economy is facing one of its most dire crisises to date and guess what we would have to do to get all the money to build the line? Raise taxes!

Hooray!

So not only is the plan not solvent, but it's contradictory with the McCain/Palin stance on taxes and the economy!

One strength: Very strong pathos.

Oh, well. At least I can go to bed tonight knowing that my country is a "shining example of exceptionalism."

Joe Biden:

He stressed his accomplishments in the Senate! He had strong pathos, too! He was articulate. I don't know if the choking up was a gimmick, but he comes off as such a sincere man, that I believe him. He was inspiring. He really was.

BrandonSh said...

hahaha, i corrected her on nuke lee er as well mr. bretzmann. and i agree that the ticker is really distracting.

I would say that Biden was still the clear winner of this debate although Palin did enough to look like she has an idea of what she's talking about. It was kind of unfair towards Biden because all week the media has been talking about how Palin is going to do horribly and making a joke out of her VP nomination. It basically set her up to win because all she had to do was not fail miserably and people would be impressed.
Biden got to specifics, refrained from making her look dumb (like mispronouncing the general's name multiple times), and effectively defended Obama's positions. He definitely came out on top tonight.

On a side note, Biden's bridge to nowhere comment was absolutely brilliant

FINALLY: the coverage of the debate and the news coverage afterwards was brought to us by exxon mobile.... i kid you not.

Addie said...

Palin didn't answer the questions, she contradicted
herself, and she slipped countless "heckuvas" and "doggone its" into her rhetoric.

And Joe Biden and Sarah Palin DO NOT agree on gay marriage. That was a semantic coincidence. Obama/Biden don't want to alter the meaning of gay marriage for secular reasons, but McCain/Palin oppose gay marriage for non-secular reasons.

"Uneducated women", Kyle Meyer?

Really?

I'm almost as offended by that as much as I would be if Sarah Palin would be the first women in the White House...

"John McCain knows how to win a war..."

Really? Did we win the Vietnam War, Sarah Palin? If you're going to make the claim that John McCain is going to be a strong leader in times of foreign conflict, for pete's sake don't use THAT as an example.

Also, stop your winking. You're making me nervous.

Also, Joe Biden spends a lot of time at Home Depot.

Jokes and editorials aside, I was just waiting for someone to point out her contradictions and beg her to answer the questions directly.

Take her rebuttal to clean energy:
The green, clean natural gas line would be one of the most expensive government infrastructure projects in the United States. Yet the economy is facing one of its most dire crisises to date and guess what we would have to do to get all the money to build the line? Raise taxes!

Hooray!

So not only is the plan not solvent, but it's contradictory with the McCain/Palin stance on taxes and the economy!

One strength: Very strong pathos.

Oh, well. At least I can go to bed tonight knowing that my country is a "shining example of exceptionalism."

Joe Biden:

He stressed his accomplishments in the Senate! He had strong pathos, too! He was articulate. I don't know if the choking up was a gimmick, but he comes off as such a sincere man, that I believe him. He was inspiring. He really was.

Alex D said...

Hey guys, I'm back I am sure anyone from my grade missed my insight and for those of you that are new I am sure you wish you had my insight in your classes :).

Anyways I missed 70% of the debate because I have to work to get money to pay for my college.

And for once I will put a post that is non biased.

I was talking to a few of my friends here that while they know of the candidates don't really follow the elections. ALL of them I was surprised to hear thought Palin won the election. They said Biden seemed old and babbled and all of them expect Palin to be unable to even speak against Biden. She did and they said that she tore him one because she related to everyone and was so easy going.

I thought this was kind of an interesting perspective just because like most of these people are just your mass market American citizen.

what do you guys think?

Johnny B said...

I didn't realize that commenting would be going on during the debate. I was enjoying it thoroughly with some puppy chow (instead of popcorn) last night.

Let's see. I believe that Biden did a better job at answering the questions. He also spent more of his time actually talking about McCain than Palin seemed to talk about Obama. On one of the questions about Iraq, Palin gave her answer and Biden's response was something like: "With all due respect, I didn't hear a plan." And then went on to actually give a plan. That I enjoyed.

Drifke, what friends are you talking to? I thought last night was a debate, not an election. ;]

Watch this if you care:
5 Friends

RyanO said...

I thought Palin's points sounded like regurgitations more than anything else. I agree with some of the analysts who were talking about if they trust her to make decisions that could affect the entire country (as in the 9/11 situation). Honestly after what we have seen for the past two weeks and even what we saw last night, how could anyone say that she would do anything but choke in those high pressure situations. If she can't handle a interview with Couric, which a politician should be able to do regardless, you damn sure won't be able to make high pressure decisions with other people's lives on the line. That is not something that can be learned over a period of a couple weeks (or months). And because of that, you have to ask whether that was the real Palin on the stage or tape recorder playing back what the average American wants to hear. Examples of this would be when she would just give a quick response denying or confirming something Biden said attacking her/McCain. Those attacks usually warranted more than a true or false answer.

That said, I think she did an awesome job and has shown that she can spin just as good as anyone else. She definitely dug herself out of the hole she was in and that will help McCain's credibility a lot. Now I think its up to McCain to regain some momentum and stop Obama's if he wants to win in Nov.

Vince said...

Biden really stepped up big in the debate thursday. He made his points clear and actually answered the questions being asked. Palin did better than i expected but she didn't accomplish waht Biden did. She rambeled and didnt always answer the question a hand. Biden did what he was supposed to do, not say anything stupid to mess up Obama, and Palin did a so so job in fixing her reputation. In my eyes the debate record is 2-0 in favor of Obama

RyanO said...

You can really tell when the Republicans are getting desperate when they start stuff like this.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/04/palin.obama/index.html

kylem27 said...

I am NOT saying that all women are uneducated nor do I believe that they are. However, I was talking with this girl at my work, and I asked who she was voting for. She replied, "I don't plan on voting, but if I did, I would vote for Palin because we have the same religous beliefs." I don't hold it against this person that I talked to, I am just saying that she couldn't care less about politics.

kylem27 said...

^^^ Also, there are men out there who care as little about politics as some women do.

Johnny B said...

Ryan,

I couldn't believe how many Republicans that I met in the Army who said they wouldn't vote for Obama because of his middle name, or because they think he's Muslim. So this article didn't surprise me too much.

Alli B said...

I think SNL said it best: “The big winner was whoever you already liked.” Each party is saying their own Vice-presidential nominee won the debate so I don’t think there was an obvious winner or loser. Because Governor Palin had a harder mission to accomplish in the debate, I think she completed her mission more effectively. She really had to prove that she knows what she’s talking about in the debate. Biden just had to show up and not make any major mistakes which he did not fully accomplish. He made a number of factual errors including an obvious one about the constitution.

RyanO said...

John,
Those are the people that I wish were also to incompetent to vote. Otherwise how goes the service? What parts of the world are you in right now?

Since no one else mentioned it, I think I must say that Biden's teeth looked especially white on debate night. He has to whiten or something.

RyanO said...

And I just showed my own incompetence by using "to" instead of "too" in that sentence. Dangit...

ryanh said...

I think that Sarah Palin won the debate just because of the fact that she tries a lot harder to relate to the middle class than Joe Biden seems to. I still think that even if he tried as hard to compare to the middle class as she does her personality and demeanor help to make it seem much more natural and believable.

shannon_o said...

I believe both did well. Biden did a much better job of staying on topic and actually answering the questions. Palin seemed to start rambling when she got nervous, although she did do better than expected.

nathanl said...

Well, I'm not quite sure what the mission of each candidate was, but if Palin's was to stop failing at public appearances, then I think she was pretty effective. Biden overall sounded more knowledgeable, and probably won the debate, but I've heard a lot of people were surprised by how well Palin carried herself.

Alexk said...

I saw very little of the debate, but I think it is a little hypocritical how Biden wants to use troops to fight in Darfur because of genocide when he doesn't support troops in Iraq where there was genocide before we got there.

Vina A said...

Guess who's baaaack??!

I know you missed my amazing comments...


Alright. I was watching Fox after the debate and 86% of the texting population said that Palin did a better job.

I think that they both did well; Sarah Palin was very personable, and many people felt that they could relate to her. Joe Biden, as always, did as well as expected, he stayed calm and took things seriously, but not too seriously.

It's a close call... Can't wait to see what happens after the election!!

Mr. Bretzmann said...

Good thing the United States jumped right in in 2003 to help out with the genocide that Saddam Hussein attempted in the 1980's.

Jenni F said...

"Say it ain't so Joe," but I agree with Nathan and think that if Palin's mission was to prove her confidence in public speaking, she did a pretty good job. Athough she seemed nervous compared to Biden's cool, Palin came off looking good to me. As to who completed thier mission more effetively... that's a tough question.

Side Note: I read on YahooNews that the VP debate had a higher TV rating than the first Presidential one. I'm not surprised, the Brewers game was on that night ;)

Kyle K said...

I only had a chance to watch the first half of the debate. I agree with those that say the ticker at the bottom of the screen was distracting. I was kind of disappointed when Palin brought up the whole "if you ask any soccer mom..." bit, I feel she is overplaying that card. But at the same time I felt that Palin did show a sense of confidence and looked like she new what she was talking about. So overall i think Palin was effective in completing her mission at the debate

Ryan K said...

I think that Biden really took the debate. Palin was struggling more at the begining and you could tell she was nervous. I think this was a HUGE factor because even though people should watch the entire debate, many uninformed citizens may only watch like 20 minutes. The first 20 minutes are crucial because that is where a first impression is established. If Palin leaves a bad first impression then it really makes Biden look like a hero.

RyanO said...

But Mr. Bretzmann, the US has a policy of taking things kinda slow. I mean, we just declared what Turkey did to the Armenians a genocide last Spring. And that happened in 1915. See how much good that did! These things take careful consideration. We'll probably end up in Darfur around 2030. (Touches finger to nose).

Mr. Bretzmann said...

Good point RyanO

This just in from July 2008:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The House of Representatives on Tuesday passed a resolution apologizing to African-Americans for slavery and the era of Jim Crow.

The nonbinding resolution, which passed on a voice vote, was introduced by Rep. Steve Cohen, a white lawmaker who represents a majority black district in Memphis, Tennessee.

While many states have apologized for slavery, it is the first time a branch of the federal government has done so, an aide to Cohen said.

In passing the resolution, the House also acknowledged the "injustice, cruelty, brutality and inhumanity of slavery and Jim Crow."

"Jim Crow," or Jim Crow laws, were state and local laws enacted mostly in the Southern and border states of the United States between the 1870s and 1965, when African-Americans were denied the right to vote and other civil liberties and were legally segregated from whites.

The name "Jim Crow" came from a character played by T.D. "Daddy" Rice who portrayed a slave while in blackface during the mid-1800s.

The resolution states that "the vestiges of Jim Crow continue to this day."

mevanoff said...

I believe that it was an even draw in the debate. Each candidate had his or her own points to shine but one that stood out was when Palin said, “Some of his comments that he’s made about the war, that I think, in my world disqualify someone from consideration for the next commander-in-chief,” said Palin. “Some of the comments he’s made about Afghanistan, what we are doing there, ‘just air raiding villages and killing civilians.’ That’s reckless.” That was a key arguement and reveals a possible chink in Obama's past.

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/palin_goes_on_the_attack_says_obama_not_qualified_to_be_president/

Sergeant K. said...

I think this debate was almost a repeat of the presidential debate. Neither candidate really "won" but both proved that they can handle major public speaking events. Biden managed to hold his tongue and Palin proved she can do the debate. A lot of people say that Biden won, and I'll give him credit but I still think it was a draw.

-Erik K.

JakeK said...

I believe that Biden was the victor in the debate. Not because of what he said/did but because of what Palin failed to say/do. It was another instance of her repeating generic answers and not even approaching the moderator's questions. Oh, she looked nervous too.

tyler l said...

I feel both accomplished their misson effectivly. Palin seemed knowledgeble on issues and i feel improved her public apperence. Biden did a good job of seeming knowledgeble as well.

JeremyL said...

I think that Palin may have done a better job only because she talked more...Biden seemed really quiet and sighed at a lot of topics. I actually think that both candidates could've and should've done a much better job but overall I think Palin did a little better.

Palin- C+
Biden- C-

Both could've been much better...

MattC said...

I myself am not a huge Palin fan, but I was a bit surprised to see her be much more comfortable and more ready to go this time around. In spite of all Palin's improvements I still believe Joe Biden easily trumped her. Obama picked Joe Biden for his seniority and experience and he definately came to show off those traits. He sounded very assured, wise, and strong; qualites that Obama desperately wants to appeal to left leaning republicans and moderates. All in all Biden brought experience and Palin brought a much improved readiness, but still relied to heavily on her "Hiya I'm from aluska" motif.

A very respectable debate.

Alex H said...

Let's start with Biden. He did a good job in the debate, but several things really bothered me. 1) He lied quite a few times about voting statistics and Obama. So I decided to look up the transcript for the debate. alli b had a very nice link to everything to sum up my point on that. 2) He referred to himself in third person. Seriously? That bothered me. 3) He started to rant a bit, and I began to loose interest at that point.

As for Palin, she did a pretty good job as well. The media spent all week setting her up to fail,
so really, it was easy for Biden to look good. She looked a bit nervous, but it seemed that she had a much better idea of what to say, and what the issues were.

Both Palin and Biden never really directly answered the questions. Yes, there is a reason why. They want to make the other candidate look bad so it's basically their talking points. Yes, it is very annoying, but that is how it is.

d gunderson said...

I think both potentail vice-presidents did pretty well. Palin had problems answering the questions that were asked to her. Biden did his job of not saying anything wrong and doing a good job of answering the questions. I think Palin didn't give too many responses that actually had substance to them either. She did do well in the fact that she knew a lot of information and a lot about McCain's policies, but she sounded too scripted in my opinion. I would have to say that Biden did the better job.

Zach Matusinec said...

I believe Joe Biden better completed his mission in the debate. He was able to call out many of the Romney/Ryan "flip-flops" and "lies" that Obama was not able to call out during the 1st presidential debate. I think the Democratic campaign wanted Biden to seem energetic and ready for another term in the White House. Paul Ryan also debated well. He seemed very well prepared and was able to counter most of Biden's remarks.