tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post7798004318865932544..comments2023-04-03T19:49:42.055-05:00Comments on Civics Blog: Opinion: What is your view of the protests, counter-protests, and non-traditional political participation going on in Wisconsin?Mr. Bretzmannhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04907368716316376079noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-31458371442710495152013-03-17T21:49:24.048-05:002013-03-17T21:49:24.048-05:00After the tensions have calmed and the act has bee...After the tensions have calmed and the act has been passed, the protests that took place in Madison were a perfect example of the civil rights U.S citizens have. Regardless of the debate, protests like those truly show the great power of the people in the government and shows that the freedom of peaceful protest is more than just an empty statement on a 200 year old piece of paper. Even though this issue has been put behind us, the idea that citizens of America can fight for what they believe through voting or camping outside of the capital with thousands of other protesters shows the true strength of the US Constitution.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14998970019314389736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-74552122870678275232013-03-10T20:00:08.566-05:002013-03-10T20:00:08.566-05:00I think the participation of the citizens was a bi...I think the participation of the citizens was a bit inspiring. Many citizens felt that they had the power to make a difference. Some protesters may have taken the idea too far; however, as a whole the group should not be looked down upon with scorn. Protesting is one of our rights, and I like seeing people exercise their rights. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10123068909882286226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-31417020424753239922011-09-25T19:59:08.889-05:002011-09-25T19:59:08.889-05:00I feel that the people of Wisconsin have a right t...I feel that the people of Wisconsin have a right to protest and counter-protest under the first amendment to the Constitution. But I believe it is wrong for protesters to become violent or destroy the capital building. I also feel it is wrong to protest the homes of representatives and government officials. People need to show respect while protesting because destroying things or becoming violent is counter productive.Chris DeWinterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02367177800668212675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-23586422289876118622011-03-20T15:16:26.575-05:002011-03-20T15:16:26.575-05:00The fact that the judge in Madison is delaying the...The fact that the judge in Madison is delaying the proposed collective bargaining bill is incredibly interesting. This time delay gives many districts an opportunity to renegotiate contracts before the ban on collective bargaining takes place. This is an interesting and also ill advised course of action taken by these districts in my opinion because whether or not collective bargaining is currently in effect, budgets for the communities/districts will still be cut. This is just harming the districts further by allowing public workers to gouge even more funds out of the budget.GLeGroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11353230414358533188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-80588233434360314772011-03-20T15:15:04.609-05:002011-03-20T15:15:04.609-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11887336874000145093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-36661740741302690782011-03-13T10:45:48.451-05:002011-03-13T10:45:48.451-05:00Wow! what an ending to all this! Well, actually n...Wow! what an ending to all this! Well, actually not an ending. The Wisconisn supreme court will ahve to rule on weather the meeting the Republicans called was constitutional. I have a feeling that the court will rule in constitutional. I also have a feeling that protesting will not die down for a few months, the issue is to hot.Blake Kraussel hr. 2https://www.blogger.com/profile/01647177006341805707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-6698453750977648562011-03-05T19:33:53.567-06:002011-03-05T19:33:53.567-06:00I think that all of the participation is great for...I think that all of the participation is great for our state. It is a crucial part of democracy for the people's voice to be heard and their opinions know. And even though both sides are passionately stating their case, it is impressive that the protests in Madison were completely peaceful. Some aspects, however, are not so civil. I wish that when politicians, activists, and people with strong opinions would make claims, refute the other side respectfully, and respect everyone. Too often people resort to attacking others, and make points that they themselves would not adhere to. For example, Democrats attack Republicans for trying to push legislature through, even though they would do the same if the positions were reversed. All in all, despite occasional attacks and general lack of civility, the protests and participation is good.Rjohnson-evershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04347544258601766895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-16597770311612718782011-02-28T21:37:50.143-06:002011-02-28T21:37:50.143-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.nspoerkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12144045944664577885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-70867730996993638242011-02-28T21:35:03.370-06:002011-02-28T21:35:03.370-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.nspoerkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12144045944664577885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-78597389562816691782011-02-27T23:29:42.549-06:002011-02-27T23:29:42.549-06:00I believe that the protests and counter-protests a...I believe that the protests and counter-protests are necessary in maintaining a peaceful democracy in Wisconsin. It demonstrates the influence that citizens can have on government actions. The protesters are hopefully inspiring others to join them rather than being complacent members of society, which would simply allow the government to manipulate everyone. As long as the protesters remain peaceful and logical in their efforts, they can be just as influential as the lawmakers. <br /><br />I believe many people are only focusing on a few aspects of the budget repair bill and choosing a side based on party affiliation. I highly encourage people to look at the bill as a whole and attempt to understand the situation. After reading through all the previous posts and spending a lot of time researching the bill and possible outcomes, I feel much more confident in my own beliefs, and have a better understanding of the protests.<br /><br />Lastly, I am impressed with Spoerk's post. His ability to help others understand their facts and his own analysis of the budget repair bill shows that he has spent time learning about the situation. I truly hope others read through all the posts, especially his post, because understanding everything about this bill is the only way to wholeheartedly choose a side, whatever side that may be.JBerlynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05505843841917479891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-70658107611068524712011-02-27T23:00:59.032-06:002011-02-27T23:00:59.032-06:00This is a very exciting interesting thing thats go...This is a very exciting interesting thing thats going on in our state right now, and the whole country is hearing about it! I do appreciate the fact that the people are actually using their freedom to the right to protest, but i feel that they just need to stop being babies now. its getting kind of ridiculous. This is the whole reason we voted Walker into office to begin with! i respect counter-protests and the non-traditional political participation going on in the state no doubt about it though. I am excited to see what comes of everything.<br />P.S. I cant believe the commercials on the radio for the side thats against Walker, they sound like political campaign commercials all over again!!bradysimshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12592960000772152487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-46571451435478080112011-02-27T23:00:52.572-06:002011-02-27T23:00:52.572-06:00This is a very exciting interesting thing thats go...This is a very exciting interesting thing thats going on in our state right now, and the whole country is hearing about it! I do appreciate the fact that the people are actually using their freedom to the right to protest, but i feel that they just need to stop being babies now. its getting kind of ridiculous. This is the whole reason we voted Walker into office to begin with! i respect counter-protests and the non-traditional political participation going on in the state no doubt about it though. I am excited to see what comes of everything.<br />P.S. I cant believe the commercials on the radio for the side thats against Walker, they sound like political campaign commercials all over again!!bradysimshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12592960000772152487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-39338799266389945402011-02-27T22:47:01.744-06:002011-02-27T22:47:01.744-06:00I am very excited to say that this Saturday I foun...I am very excited to say that this Saturday I found the opportunity to visit Madison and experience the protests first-hand. While the protests were not at their height, there were still hundreds of people demonstrating their opinions in opposition to the bill. The experience was not only educational, but incredibly powerful. As I slithered my way through the people and entered the center of the rotunda, I was overwhelmed with the sight of young people, covered in tie-dye and banging on drums. While I walked the building and observed the walls plastered with home-made posters (some rather outrageous), I was overwhelmed with a scene that I only pictured in text books. It was truly a surreal experience. <br />However, while I found the protests to be incredibly compelling, I couldn't help but question the serious dedication of some of the protesters. Many of the most spirited protesters seemed to be more concerned with the experience of protesting, rather than the reason for the protest. While this may be merely a judgement, I believe that many were liberal college kids who found excitement in chanting, banging on drums, and singing "We Shall Overcome". I understand that I may be wrong, but I think that the extent of the protest has been heightened by kids who want to be "hippies" like they've seen from movies. While there were many people who had legitimate political opinion and concern, I doubt the credibility of the tie-dyed, sarong wearing hipsters who continually Walker-bashed and spoke nothing about the actual content of the bill.J.Sardinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09871663154194267029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-15173140157077615512011-02-27T21:14:15.730-06:002011-02-27T21:14:15.730-06:00I am glad that we live in a country where people a...I am glad that we live in a country where people are able to protest and speak their mind, but in this case I don't think it was right when teachers were calling in sick and missing work to voice there opinion. I'm also glad to see that there were supporters from both sides at the capital. I don't agree with what the teachers did, but I respect the views and opinions of both sides.rrantalahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08142216526876655437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-26702460761571781912011-02-27T17:55:27.981-06:002011-02-27T17:55:27.981-06:00I think that what the teacher protestors are doing...I think that what the teacher protestors are doing is wrong. I am all for the right to express ones views but to call in sick when you are not sick is wrong. Well that is just my opinion. I am happy to see that there are some counter-protestors but not a crazy amount. When I was in Madison I saw maybe 2,500 to 5,000 counter-protestors in a group. I am glad that the counter-protestors aren't leaving their jobs to express their views. I respect both sides and am glad that we live in a country that would allow this type of political participation.nwaltershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16570869044935887157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-57647613564355773412011-02-27T16:05:38.114-06:002011-02-27T16:05:38.114-06:00Like others have posted before me, I too am not re...Like others have posted before me, I too am not really taking a side to this issue as I am split on whether the positives outweigh the negatives in passing the bill (which will get passed anyway). At a time when I have really taken interest in politics, it is very enlightening to be able to witness such strong support for a political cause. After two weeks of protesting numbers peaked yesterday to higher than the previous week. People from New York and Los Angeles have been coming in for the past week. It is very inspiring to see that this many people are fighting for what they believe in for so long. The only thing I wish to see in the upcoming week is for one Democratic Senator to return. At this point, Governor Walker has made it clear that he is unwilling to budge and the absent Senators are only delaying the inevitable.DWayerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00354643069622773354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-74499092971028618962011-02-27T13:45:35.252-06:002011-02-27T13:45:35.252-06:00I think that it is great to see our state so invol...I think that it is great to see our state so involved in politics. It will be interesting to see what comes of it. I am pro-walker. I believe he is doing the right thing. No one will be 100 percent happy with what a governor does. The democrat's will have to deal with the consequences of a Republican Office. Go Walker!!!Blake Kraussel hr. 2https://www.blogger.com/profile/01647177006341805707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-42257771005749659632011-02-27T13:24:20.169-06:002011-02-27T13:24:20.169-06:00When I first went to Madison to witness both sides...When I first went to Madison to witness both sides of the debate rallying and marching, I was stunned by the high level of civility and peace. Even though some might feel like they are headed towards tough times, I did not see anyone breakdown or fight. There will always be a supporting side to match a group who disapproves of a bill. I'm sympathetic to both sides of the issue, as many of my relatives and family friends work in the public sector. Though this is an extremely controversial move by Governor Walker, it will have negative effects, but it also will have positive ones, and so I do support his effort to reduce spending. The future looks bleak in a state of debt and confusion if we do not do something now. I look at debt like a cancer--if you stop it early, it's easy to continue on. However, if you let cancer metastasize or debt grow, it's hard to survive.KSASShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00662390346933796262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-67375890107807524532011-02-27T12:15:45.794-06:002011-02-27T12:15:45.794-06:00...
5. "Christian thinks it's selfish fo......<br /><br />5. <i>"Christian thinks it's selfish for the people to be making such a big deal ove[r] something that will be helping out state and country"</i> (CAbbey). (This comment is reagrding the pay cuts and loss of some benefits.) I agree that it's selfish, even if all of us humans have that same selfishness of wanting more money. However, that is not the issue. Teachers' groups have agreed to concede their monetary losses. The main issue they cite is the loss of the right to collectively bargain.<br /><br />6. <i>"puplic workers should pay more of their health care because the percentage the puplic worker pay is lower than the national average"</i> (cziolkowski). Definitely true. However, through their bargaining, teachers often elect to take a significantly lower salary in return for these health benefits. It's a trade off. Instead of earning more money that they can then use to buy their own insurance like is done in many private-sector cases, teachers' organizations have, for the most part, negotiated to substitute benefits for salary. It's not that they're getting more benefits and coming out ahead of private-sector employees, they're just getting their benefits in a different way.<br /><br />However, I don't want to leave the impression I am blindly advocating unions, teachers' benefits, and all the other things on that side of the issue. Here are some points I agree with:<br /><br />1. <i>"I am currently in the opinion that unions do provide some positive aspects to the work place, such as negotiating conditions and wages, but have gone too far in ensuring the longevity of the workers regardless of the level of quality"</i> (JVarsos). Entirely true in my opinion. There are bad teachers and teacher unions shouldn't stick up for them on the sole basis that they are a member of a union, just as I would expect a malpracticing lawyer to face punishment regardless of whether or not he/she is protected by a union<br /><br />2. <i>"We can't keep spending money we don't have for years to come"</i> (AHanna). I am also completely with this point. However, I believe that education is too valuable to account for so much of the budget cuts. I would like to see some restrictions on extraneous projects that <i>at least</i> match the cuts on our schools.<br /><br /><br />For those of you whose posts I have argued, sorry if I've offended you. My point is just that, as Mr. Bretzmann says, <i>"You're welcome to your own opinions, but not your own facts."</i> In this debate, it seems like there is a lot of misinformation going around about the situation and not many people (on either side) are bothering to question the rumors. Before you throw a fact around, check to see if it's actually fact.nspoerkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12144045944664577885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-54659844524965253282011-02-27T12:15:19.546-06:002011-02-27T12:15:19.546-06:00First of all, I would like to refute a couple of t...First of all, I would like to refute a couple of the points made in previous posts, just to get the facts straight.<br /><br />1. <i>"Wisconsin union protesters are fighting to preserve [overreach by government]"</i> (LWundrock). Actually, this bill allows the Governor to appoint an official that can, in essence, arbitrarily terminate the employment of public employees. Among the potential justifications for firing the employee is <i>“concerted activities to interrupt the operations or services of state government."</i> (Exact wording from the bill.) Essientally, protesters of governmental actions can be fired on the sole premise that they are exercising their right to protest against Walker's bill. Sounds like an "overreach of government" to me.<br /><br />2. <i>"A dozen or so states do not allow collective bargaining in the public sector at all, and these states are doing just fine without it"</i> (LWundrock). First of all, the number is not a dozen, but five. And as for doing fine, let's consider the <i>"successful policies of Virginia, North Carolina, and other states"</i> (LWundrock). They rank 50th, 49th, 48th, 47th, and 44th in the country in terms of average ACT scores. I wouldn’t call that successful policy by any interpretation of the phrase. Currently, Wisconsin is 2nd. The likely reasoning for this is that <i>"[a]lthough cutting the collective bargaining powers can, in a way, get rid of poor teachers, it does not help with getting better ones. What is going to make the intelligent students want to be a teacher now?"</i> (Zyork). <br /><br />Sure, there are other measures of academic competence other than ACT scores, but comparison of comprehensive standardized tests is one of the most accurate measures. This is too strong of a correlation to ignore, regardless of whether or not it invalidates your view of the issue.<br /><br />3. <i>"Nowhere in the United States Constitution and its 27 Amendments is there an enumerated or implied right to collective bargaining. Therefore, I see no "rights" being taken away from the public workers"</i> (AHanna). True. However, the right to collectively bargain <i>was</i> given to public sector workers (specifically teachers) in an agreement that exchanged the right to collectively bargain for the right to collectively strike. You can be against the teachers for striking and concede their right to bargain, or you can be against the teachers' right to bargain band concede their right to strike. You <i>can't</i>, however, have your cake and eat it too. They get one or the other.<br /><br />4. <i>"I’m definitely not looking forward to inheriting a debt I had nothing to do with creating"</i> (KMatusinec). Yeah, neither are teachers. It's not their fault the Democrats of the last eleven years have had the fiscal irresponsibility to goof up a balanced budget. I mean <b><i>really,</i></b> how hard is it to stay out of debt when you're required by law to adhere to a balanced budget?<br /><br />(See next post)<br />...nspoerkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12144045944664577885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-75614371420229097972011-02-26T08:33:14.530-06:002011-02-26T08:33:14.530-06:00I believe people have the right to protest whether...I believe people have the right to protest whether they are for or against the proposed budget bill. However, teachers should not be “skipping” school because it’s unprofessional and also very hypocritical. If teachers want to protest, fine, but they should do so on their weekends, especially if they are UW Madison professors. The UW Madison students pay extremely high tuition and they are being cheated out of their education at the moment. As for the Democratic Senators, they should return to the capitol. Scott Walker was voted into office because he promised to change Wisconsin’s economy. Now he is doing so and there’s a huge uproar. If we’re going to fix the economy, we have to be prepared make sacrifices. The Democrats need to return because even if there are 70,000 protesters in Madison, 1,128,159 people voted Scott Walker into office and these people want to see economic change.ckrueselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974349120401607856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-2414740007278495202011-02-25T05:08:25.630-06:002011-02-25T05:08:25.630-06:00In the prior week it has been truly eye opening to...In the prior week it has been truly eye opening to see all the people who have become politically active. While I do agree with the right to protest and the right of free speech stated in the first Amendment, I also believe that Governor Walkers bill will help move Wisconsin forward. I do not believe that anyone is criticizing the hard work that the public employees, such as teachers do. However, the state has been spending more money than it has, so it is necessary to control health care and retirement costs. Whether or not we all agree on this issue it is great to see society standing up for what they believe in.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08242128451278064978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-86573636029901590722011-02-25T00:18:17.782-06:002011-02-25T00:18:17.782-06:00I believe that everyone has the right to protest, ...I believe that everyone has the right to protest, so I support the rallies and protests taking place in Madison. I am against Walker's bill because of the effects it will have on many people and institutions. For example,the tuition prices at UW-Madison will increase if it pulls away from the UW school system. My sister currently goes to this university and I would like to go there next year, which will be hard on my family. If I wasn't so busy I would've gone to the capitol like my sister did and joined in the protests (and probably would've held a pretty awesome sign).twernerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00751818931394466079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-29909745168613200462011-02-23T15:16:38.686-06:002011-02-23T15:16:38.686-06:00This is one issue that actully payed a fair amount...This is one issue that actully payed a fair amount of attention to. I really like to hear peoples opinion because it is happening so close to us and it has a direct connection to all students. I think protesting is okay for people to do, but I really do not think it really makes much of a difference. It is extremely hard to change a persons mind on an issue when they have already made a decision on it. In my opinion I really do feel that puplic workers should pay more of their health care because the percentage the puplic worker pay is lower than the national average. Overal this is a very interesting topic and I think the state is doing this to save money and not because they hate teachers.cziolkowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07658560587395606411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27559829.post-42031449556676518782011-02-21T20:43:21.062-06:002011-02-21T20:43:21.062-06:00A lot of the protest that is going on seems to be ...A lot of the protest that is going on seems to be good old American protesting with Wisconsinites flowing into Madison to voice their opinion. A good portion of these people also seem to be protesting in a logical way with good evidence to support their opinion. However, the protesters and the counter-protesters that are using Hitler references and other extreme ways of protesting to voice their opinion are a disgrace to the state. History is being made right now and I am pleased to see the large amount of political participation that has been occurring recently. However, irrational comments that lack any political common sense are humiliating to the state of Wisconsin no matter what side of the debate they come from.moconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05493495107585983912noreply@blogger.com